Why I'm a She-Nayer, by pH6

[pH6]

This is not intended to hurt anyones feelings, just venting the flipside of the coin, on how I feel. I've seen in my time enough hate-mongering posts of the subject, and I'm somewhat quilty of those myself. But at least I try to be civil and have examined a lot, so I think I do have a case to present. One of the catalytes for posting this (again, the first one was lost in the sands of time years ago) is the fact I've found myself enjoying PoP books lately...and then I watched a few cartoon episodes to remind myself of what makes my teeth grind when I hear the name 'She-Ra'. I wish to emphasize that PoP was not released in Finland in the 80s at all. We had one sentence that mentioned Adora, and a few comic book panels (where She-Ra was an illusion created by Evil-Lyn) and the Christmas Special (which I didn't know about until in the 2000s...and even that lacks She-Ra from both the Finnish AND original title). So, unlike MotU or NA, there is no nostalgy boost which helps to forgive some things in them that kinda 'just are so and have always been'.

My biggest dislike in the line is She-Ra herself. I can live with soap operish siblings appearing out of nowhere, since I know from personal experience it does happen in real life. But I can't live with the fact that there's plenty of same generation chosen ones. He-Man, as the foretold king of Castle Grayskull, THE most powerful man in the universe, loses very much of the epic feel when there starts appearing more of the same, tapping on the same power source AND in many ways exceeding He-Man's abilities. (With Classics, it's gone even worse. I've lost count to how many swords of He, clones, copies etc. are there!) It's just...I feel like she's stealing the spotlight. One has to remember that one point in my distaste for her, is the fact that for me there never was a She-Ra in the 80s. Ever. And He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, fighting against Evil Warriors, Evil Horde, Snake Men and everything, was still every bit as awesome. I was way over 20 when I first was introduced to the line, and it therefore completely lacks any nostalgia boost many other franchises benefit from simply because they bring back all those wonderful memories.

The Mattel's official Fashion Dolls approach. And interesting enough, most of the non-Mattel material totally ignores that angle – and also interesting enough, much of that material shows there's potential enough for the franchise to stand on it's own. The need for He-Man in majority of the stories is just as small as is MotUs need for She-Ra, eg. non-existant. MotU had plenty of wonderful action features. In Princess of Power, getting the character to raise both hand simultanously is a lot...without action features, they just aren't action figures. If I'd been a little girl, I most likely would've liked the hairdressing and such. But for a man, majority of accessories being different dresses, combs and brushes or for castle, pretty much the furniture of a doll house...for the most part, they just lack the 'it'. Sorcery may be there, but it certainly lacks the sword. Seriously, with such an amazing arsenal it's no wonder the Horde wiped the floor with Etherians. In Masters of the Universe, much of the appeal of the toys comes from their cool weaponry. Both to wield and to ride.

Which brings us to...horsie horsie horsie...the army of cloned horsies. Granted, with MotU there are a few equally little articulated beasts. But relatively speaking, not even close to that many! Again, if I was a little girl, I might find them more appealing. But even for a fan of westerns these seriously lack something. Definitely none of them could be described as a war horse, these are more like show pieces. And just why almost everything had to get a hair, including a swan? Would be interesting to know if Butterflyer sold worse than expected because she didn't have something to comb...

Oh, and when we get to the army of clones...have I seen that face before? Have I seen that torso design before? Have I seen those arms and legs before? Heck, I know MotU reused parts all the time. But at least not ALL the parts ALL the time.

The troll rip-off will most likely get on this list too. I've only ever seen one once, on unopened card in a closed case. Wasn't impressed, and can't really understand the huge price, regardless of how rare they might be.

The cartoon...oh boy. Was it Adora who single-handedly conquered Etheria? Because the Evil Horde as seen in the cartoon after the first few episodes seriously couldn't take over a candy from a baby. Voices, oh deary my. Loo-Kee, Mantenna, Leech and Mermista would've benefited a lot from being in constant mute. And just how closely is Hordak related to Mr. Slime Pig? *snort* Tung Lashor is my all time favourite character. He was quite a threat in several comics. But why, of why, is he always made such a fool (ok, in this case to fit in with the Horde obviously) in cartoons? And just why did the wonderful colour scheme had to be replaced with a very strange combination of Rattlor's colours? Tung Lashor is too pink for Princess of Power? Annoying children characters are a Filmation norm, which PoP couldn't avoid either. I've been told it's better written than MotU, but my suspension of disbelief does not stretch enough.

So there...I could go on in more detail, but I think some of the essential is there. I do not per default hate Princess of Power franchise, it just has these certain flaws in my eyes that can't be helped anymore.


And, for the fairness, before I get flamed, I've already reposted the other side of the coin earlier.
http://he-man.org/forums/boards/show...ncess-of-Power

[Mantisaur82]

And just why did the wonderful colour scheme had to be replaced with a very strange combination of Rattlor's colours? Tung Lashor is too pink for Princess of Power? Annoying children characters are a Filmation norm, which PoP couldn't avoid either.
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Filmation Tung Lashor as well as many other characters including Hordak (version known as "Filmation Hordak") were produced based on concpets they got from Mattel, the concepts for future figures...after that Mattel changed final designs for the figure but that couldn't be changed for animated series.

[Scorpia]

I wish to emphasize that PoP was not released in Finland in the 80s at all. We had one sentence that mentioned Adora, and a few comic book panels (where She-Ra was an illusion created by Evil-Lyn) and the Christmas Special (which I didn't know about until in the 2000s...and even that lacks She-Ra from both the Finnish AND original title).

I'm going to give this post a bit more attention when I get the time. BUT, I will say this now: She-Ra had several video releases in Finland (there were at least four VHS tapes). Now, I'm not Finnish, but I'm almost certain the show also aired on Finnish TV. I'll have to do some detective work.

[DisneyBoy]

The cartoon...oh boy. Was it Adora who single-handedly conquered Etheria? Because the Evil Horde as seen in the cartoon after the first few episodes seriously couldn't take over a candy from a baby. Voices, oh deary my. Loo-Kee, Mantenna, Leech and Mermista would've benefited a lot from being in constant mute. And just how closely is Hordak related to Mr. Slime Pig? *snort* Tung Lashor is my all time favourite character. He was quite a threat in several comics. But why, of why, is he always made such a fool (ok, in this case to fit in with the Horde obviously) in cartoons? And just why did the wonderful colour scheme had to be replaced with a very strange combination of Rattlor's colours? Tung Lashor is too pink for Princess of Power? Annoying children characters are a Filmation norm, which PoP couldn't avoid either. I've been told it's better written than MotU, but my suspension of disbelief does not stretch enough.

Well, I definitely think the voices would come as a shock to someone who didn't grow up with them. Heck, I don't remember many of the episodes of She-Ra I saw back in the '80s, so watching the BCI DVDs meant discovering that Entrapa had a snotty "British" accent and that Modulock sounded...really weird. But compared to the He-Man show, I don't think you can say it's much stranger.

And there are a fair percentage of episodes where the Horde is seen to be really competent. "The Crystal Castle", "The Price of Freedom", "Unexpectedly Ally", "Treasures of the First Ones" are some examples in a long list. If you're looking at comedic episodes - like "Flowers for Hordak" - then yes, they'll seem less capable. But remember, there are also a bunch of episodes in the series that are sub-par and if you watch them closely more than just the Horde look bad. It comes down to the writing. Sometimes it's strong, sometimes it's not.

The bottom line is that the concepts were good.

[pH6]

I'm going to give this post a bit more attention when I get the time. BUT, I will say this now: She-Ra had several video releases in Finland (there were at least four VHS tapes). Now, I'm not Finnish, but I'm almost certain the show also aired on Finnish TV. I'll have to do some detective work.

You should know, some pH6 bloke has listed Finnish releases more than once. There is a total count of 5 Shera and She-Ra VHS tapes (so far only rental version of the fifth has emerged), with a total count of 9 different episodes. But those were released in the 90s. And no Finnish channel ever aired it, Jukka remembers better than me if it was Super Channel or Sky Channel that showed the cartoons...but those were only available to those with a satellite dish, and most definitely weren't Finnish Channels (we had two channels until late 80s and only then we got a third channel, which had MotU, that gradually started sending wider and wider).

[Sky Breaker]

I think secretly, you like She-Ra POP. That's quite the effort to convince us otherwise.

[pH6]

I think secretly, you like She-Ra POP. That's quite the effort to convince us otherwise.

If you can even vaguely remember the discussions I had on the subject in the previous incarnation of these forums years and years ago, much of which is lost forever, you wouldn't question that. Like I linked in the end of the first post, I have no problem admitting there are good elements in the franchise, but there is also a lot that makes my teeth grind to the point I'm still to see half of the cartoon. Somehow I think I had it easier if I just trolled something ridiculous like 'Princess of Power is gay and pink is a colour to be hated' and get on the blocklist of anyone interested instead of an analysis.

[Eternian-King Paul]

I want to have She-Ra's babies.

[Jukka]

I'm going to give this post a bit more attention when I get the time. BUT, I will say this now: She-Ra had several video releases in Finland (there were at least four VHS tapes). Now, I'm not Finnish, but I'm almost certain the show also aired on Finnish TV. I'll have to do some detective work.

You should know, some pH6 bloke has listed Finnish releases more than once. There is a total count of 5 Shera and She-Ra VHS tapes (so far only rental version of the fifth has emerged), with a total count of 9 different episodes. But those were released in the 90s. And no Finnish channel ever aired it, Jukka remembers better than me if it was Super Channel or Sky Channel that showed the cartoons...but those were only available to those with a satellite dish, and most definitely weren't Finnish Channels (we had two channels until late 80s and only then we got a third channel, which had MotU, that gradually started sending wider and wider).

LOL. Love it when pH6 gets schooled on the information about She-Ra VHS-releases in Finland, that he himself collected. Priceless.

And yes. I've found no indication that She-Ra was ever shown in any terrestial Finnish channel (we had some 3 of them back then).
But I have a recorded episode from SKY Channel of POP.

In Finland there were lot of direct-to-video animations. Flash Gordon by Filmation also got a VHS-release, Thundarr got a VHS-release. Neither were shown on television.

[Haephestus]

If only people weren't forced to like things that they didn't like (for example, She-Ra), then the world would truly be a better place.

Until we're all permitted to embrace freedom of expression of preference for He-Man or She-Ra, you'll just have to watch She-Ra in true Clockwork Orange style until you learn to love it!

[krosfyah]

TI've been told it's better written than MotU, but my suspension of disbelief does not stretch enough.

I like She-Ra, I like the PoP series by and large, but this line here, I agree with you. I don't feel AT ALL that she-ra was written better than MOTU. it had some VERY good stories but as a whole, I believe MOTU had stronger writing. My biggest problem with She-Ra is how happy go lucky they are in the whispering woods. that's where it feels too frilly for me. Mind you I DO REALLY ENJOY this show! but when they are relaxing it feels so out of place. I know the whispering woods are safe and you need downtime, but they take their down time VERY seriously meaning it's so light and airy you wouldn't think there is a dictatorship to topple.

Also now this will be based on personal points of view, I didn't feel as much is at stake on Etheria, yes Eternia is at peace, but it's tentative, if he-man gives up, if the good guys fail, the planet changes DRASTICALLY. but if she-ra and the rebels give up or fail, for most of Etheria it's business as usual. Again this is MY take on things. If I'm in jail serving multiple life sentences for murder and I murder an inmate, my life doesn't change much. But if I lose it at work and kill someone my life falls apart completely. that's my perspective on it.

mind you I have to stress I DO like She-ra and I have several episodes on my phone. (I generally prefer the ones with Eternians guest starring, but I like the series as a whole)

[Stratos*Major]

I mean its a cartoon...

I think its really about perspective and if you don't have a foundation of experince then its hard to have one.

For me He-Man and She-Ra were always equal. Quality of entertainment, characters, etc. etc. They both have equal positives and equal negatives. I think both had good stories (at times)....but by in large...both kinda sucked. But thats what makes them so great!!! How dumb they are....like chilling in the forest, or having a birthday party with impending doom from evil forces that are more bafoon than evil. That goes for POP & MOTU bad guys.

I'd say just like it and move on...or dont like it and move on.

Trying to analize something (anything) that was meant to entertain 5 - 10 year olds 30 years ago obviously is going to have 2 sides of the coin. I think most "things" in life have 2 sides of the coin.

This does bring up a good point....I think that is what is really missing from modern cartoons. The sillines and foolishness of them. It has to be all dramatic & serious to make it "quality" or it has to have good stories. Its a cartoon...for kids...

I mean hello the longest running cartoons.... The Flinstones, The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park...not exactly real life stuff there. Thats why it WORKS!

[Scorpia]

You should know, some pH6 bloke has listed Finnish releases more than once. There is a total count of 5 Shera and She-Ra VHS tapes (so far only rental version of the fifth has emerged), with a total count of 9 different episodes. But those were released in the 90s. And no Finnish channel ever aired it, Jukka remembers better than me if it was Super Channel or Sky Channel that showed the cartoons...but those were only available to those with a satellite dish, and most definitely weren't Finnish Channels (we had two channels until late 80s and only then we got a third channel, which had MotU, that gradually started sending wider and wider).

I didn't know you had uncovered those releases. Might have helped if you'd mentioned that. So they did air in Finland, but just on satellite TV? Was this in the 80s or 90s?

- - - Updated - - -

So, unlike MotU or NA, there is no nostalgy boost which helps to forgive some things in them that kinda 'just are so and have always been'.

Nostalgia is a big part of it. I'd wager a bet that 99% of us are here because of a fondness for nostalgia. Many of those who dislike She-Ra don't have any nostalgia for them - usually because they're either slightly older or that the show didn't air in their territories. I get that.

My biggest dislike in the line is She-Ra herself. I can live with soap operish siblings appearing out of nowhere, since I know from personal experience it does happen in real life. But I can't live with the fact that there's plenty of same generation chosen ones. He-Man, as the foretold king of Castle Grayskull, THE most powerful man in the universe, loses very much of the epic feel when there starts appearing more of the same, tapping on the same power source AND in many ways exceeding He-Man's abilities. (With Classics, it's gone even worse. I've lost count to how many swords of He, clones, copies etc. are there!) It's just...I feel like she's stealing the spotlight.

So you feel threatened by her? I'm kidding. I agree about the way He-Man has been treated in Classics. I don't like there being a long line of He-Men. Similarly, Classics alters She-Ra - the Sword of Protection is smaller and is a clone, whereas in Origin of the Sorceress, there were always two swords: the Swords of Power. She-Ra was certainly given more abilities than He-Man - her healing power makes her more compassionate, IMO, and is something that was needed more on Etheria than Eternia. The planet needed healing because it was devastated.

One has to remember that one point in my distaste for her, is the fact that for me there never was a She-Ra in the 80s. Ever. And He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, fighting against Evil Warriors, Evil Horde, Snake Men and everything, was still every bit as awesome. I was way over 20 when I first was introduced to the line, and it therefore completely lacks any nostalgia boost many other franchises benefit from simply because they bring back all those wonderful memories.

I guess I feel similarly about POG, but that never got the same attention as She-Ra until Classics (look at how many POG figures there were in the first few years vs. how many POP figures we got - I can understand your logic).

The Mattel's official Fashion Dolls approach. And interesting enough, most of the non-Mattel material totally ignores that angle – and also interesting enough, much of that material shows there's potential enough for the franchise to stand on it's own.

Whereas He-Man has returned in various guises over the years, POP has only existed in one era (1985-1987, plus an exclusive in 200X and now Classics). But even then it felt like two separate worlds. The war torn Etheria from the cartoon vs. the colourful, fashionable Etheria of the toys and mini comics. The two were so out of sync with each other, they might as well as been entirely different properties. I love the Filmation cartoon and have come to love it more in my adulthood (eg. I hated the episode Black Snow as a kid, but now see its merits - it's a great episode).

In Princess of Power, getting the character to raise both hand simultanously is a lot...without action features, they just aren't action figures. If I'd been a little girl, I most likely would've liked the hairdressing and such. But for a man, majority of accessories being different dresses, combs and brushes or for castle, pretty much the furniture of a doll house...for the most part, they just lack the 'it'.

You've hit the nail on the head. Because they were designed and marketed as girls' toys, they didn't appeal to you. Just the fact that figures from waves two and three were packaged with shields and no swords, staffs etc speaks volumes. Mattel didn't want to be promoting fighting to little girls. It drills down into gender roles, which aren't going to be changed overnight. Mattel wanted a money-making vehicle and the bulk of their female fan base wanted to brush pretty hair on pretty dolls. The cartoon showed that - actually - girls also wanted to be powerful and to make a difference.

Sorcery may be there, but it certainly lacks the sword. Seriously, with such an amazing arsenal it's no wonder the Horde wiped the floor with Etherians. In Masters of the Universe, much of the appeal of the toys comes from their cool weaponry. Both to wield and to ride.

Why do you need sword with sorcery? She-Ra (Filmation) was sometimes a different genre to He-Man. It was more magic and fantasy. And that comes down to taste. I always preferred watching She-Ra to He-Man. In fact, I probably wouldn't have watched He-Man at all if it wasn't for his sister, but you don't get the same objection to He-Man from POP fans because we know that she was introduced as a direct result of his success.

Which brings us to...horsie horsie horsie...the army of cloned horsies. Granted, with MotU there are a few equally little articulated beasts. But relatively speaking, not even close to that many! Again, if I was a little girl, I might find them more appealing. But even for a fan of westerns these seriously lack something. Definitely none of them could be described as a war horse, these are more like show pieces. And just why almost everything had to get a hair, including a swan? Would be interesting to know if Butterflyer sold worse than expected because she didn't have something to comb...

This goes back to the line being designed for girls. It's a stereotype, but little girls love horses. Mattel had massive success with Barbie, but Wonder Woman had also been hugely popular on TV and in comics. POP was a mixture of two ideas and a big risk for Mattel. POP wasn't aimed at you. It wasn't really aimed at me, but the Filmation cartoon won me over. Perhaps if you'd seen it when you were young you'd feel differently about it (because God knows I'd find no connection to Madame Razz or Kowl if I were introduced to She-Ra today!).

Oh, and when we get to the army of clones...have I seen that face before? Have I seen that torso design before? Have I seen those arms and legs before? Heck, I know MotU reused parts all the time. But at least not ALL the parts ALL the time.

Perhaps the cost of rooted hair meant they needed to cut corners. MOTU and POP are both guilty of part-sharing, but they allowed both lines to continue for longer than they would if they used 100% unique sculpts.

The troll rip-off will most likely get on this list too. I've only ever seen one once, on unopened card in a closed case. Wasn't impressed, and can't really understand the huge price, regardless of how rare they might be.

Who are you talking about here? Loo-Kee? I can't understand the huge price of an original Megator. But it's all down to taste. If you want to see a really huge price, look for a MOC Spinnerella.

The cartoon...oh boy. Was it Adora who single-handedly conquered Etheria? Because the Evil Horde as seen in the cartoon after the first few episodes seriously couldn't take over a candy from a baby.

I'll admit there are some naff episodes. There are some really naff episodes of He-Man too. So I wonder if you've just been watching those. Off the top of my head, the Horde are powerful and relentless in many episodes. "Into the Dark Dimension", "The Price of Power", "The Price of Freedom", "The Crystal Castle", "Anchors Aloft Parts 1 and 2", "Unexpected Ally", "Huntara", "Treasure of the First Ones", "Return Of The General", "The Perils Of Peekablue", "The Peril of Whispering Woods". The list goes on.

Voices, oh deary my. Loo-Kee, Mantenna, Leech and Mermista would've benefited a lot from being in constant mute. And just how closely is Hordak related to Mr. Slime Pig? *snort* Tung Lashor is my all time favourite character. He was quite a threat in several comics. But why, of why, is he always made such a fool (ok, in this case to fit in with the Horde obviously) in cartoons? And just why did the wonderful colour scheme had to be replaced with a very strange combination of Rattlor's colours? Tung Lashor is too pink for Princess of Power?

Don't know why they did this - Tung Lashor is full of mysteries. He was with Skeletor in one episode, even with his Horde symbol. We'll never know the answer to that. Personally, I love the voices. I don't get the notion that villains can't have goofballs and screw-ups. Mantenna is so unique in She-Ra - constantly bullied by Hordak and characterised brilliantly in episodes like "A Loss for Words" and "The Unicorn King". Mermista's voice is sexy and seductive if you ask me.

Annoying children characters are a Filmation norm, which PoP couldn't avoid either. I've been told it's better written than MotU, but my suspension of disbelief does not stretch enough.

Again, this is down to opinion. The themes presented in She-Ra are far more mature, IMO. They're a small band of Rebels fighting an intergalactic army. If they free a town, they haven't 'won'. If they free two towns, they haven't 'won'. If they free Etheria, the Horde is still out there, occupying countless other worlds. The story of the Rebellion is one not of triumph - like in He-Man - it's one of struggle, painted with words and pictures that a child will understand. I will always think it's beautifully and masterfully done.

I haven't looked at your other thread, so I'll do that to check the balance. I like debating and it's interesting to hear people's opinions.

[pH6]

I didn't know you had uncovered those releases. Might have helped if you'd mentioned that. So they did air in Finland, but just on satellite TV? Was this in the 80s or 90s?

Well, they were for the most part on your threads, so it felt kinda unnecessary. Yeah, those who could get foreing channels could see it. And that was in the 80s. I watched a LOT of cartoons at my cousin's place...but no MotU or PoP was aired then. I remember a lot of DC and Marvel cartoons instead from those days.

Why do you need sword with sorcery? She-Ra (Filmation) was sometimes a different genre to He-Man. It was more magic and fantasy. And that comes down to taste. I always preferred watching She-Ra to He-Man. In fact, I probably wouldn't have watched He-Man at all if it wasn't for his sister, but you don't get the same objection to He-Man from POP fans because we know that she was introduced as a direct result of his success.

I didn't talk about the cartoon, I was still on the toys. And besides the few staffs and She-Ra's sword, I would like them to have some equipment. Like I said, MotU has some spectacular weapons and accessories. PoP mainly has...a shield and a comb. Really a shield and a comb.

Perhaps if you'd seen it when you were young you'd feel differently about it (because God knows I'd find no connection to Madame Razz or Kowl if I were introduced to She-Ra today!).

That is something we will never know...but oh deary my, I consider myself a huge fan of that old witch! It's her Broom I can't stand.

I'll admit there are some naff episodes. There are some really naff episodes of He-Man too. So I wonder if you've just been watching those. Off the top of my head, the Horde are powerful and relentless in many episodes. "Into the Dark Dimension", "The Price of Power", "The Price of Freedom", "The Crystal Castle", "Anchors Aloft Parts 1 and 2", "Unexpected Ally", "Huntara", "Treasure of the First Ones", "Return Of The General", "The Perils Of Peekablue", "The Peril of Whispering Woods". The list goes on.

I could go in detail for some of those, simply because I have seen most of them, some of them even recently. When the Horde is close to success, there seldom is any horde involved. It's Shadow Weaver who does all of the kicking of ass.

I don't get the notion that villains can't have goofballs and screw-ups.

I'm not saying they can't. Vast majority of cartoons for children run on the fact that the villains make a mistake, more often than not a face-palming one. But with Horde...it doesn't make sense they ever could've maintained their rule that long, especially since the heroic side seems to have more magic power one their side to beat Shadow Weaver even one-on-one.

[Scorpia]

Well, they were for the most part on your threads, so it felt kinda unnecessary.

But your initial post wasn't aimed at me....?

I didn't talk about the cartoon, I was still on the toys. And besides the few staffs and She-Ra's sword, I would like them to have some equipment. Like I said, MotU has some spectacular weapons and accessories. PoP mainly has...a shield and a comb. Really a shield and a comb.

This goes back to who the POP line was designed for: little girls. Mattel didn't know that, 25 years from then, avid fans of He-Man and She-Ra would be analysing their toylines and associated media. The fact that Series 2 characters only had shields speaks volumes - Mattel were playing it safe. 'Little girls' don't fight, but it's OK for them to defend. That's the notion of giving Peekablue, Flutterina etc shields. Netossa and Spinnerella were due to be released with swords, that were withheld for some reason.

That is something we will never know...but oh deary my, I consider myself a huge fan of that old witch! It's her Broom I can't stand.

That's cool - unusual if you like. I love 'em both.

I could go in detail for some of those, simply because I have seen most of them, some of them even recently. When the Horde is close to success, there seldom is any horde involved. It's Shadow Weaver who does all of the kicking of ass.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on those because Shadow Weaver is only prominent in two of them. In Into the Dark Dimension, it's Scorpia who threatens the Rebels before Hordak and She-Ra return. In Anchors Aloft Part 2, Admiral Scurvy is about to take an unconscious She-Ra to the Fright Zone to claim his reward before Sea Hawk saves the day. In The Peril of Whispering Woods, Hordak prepares to break his end of the bargain and poison the woods again, only to find that Madame Razz's potion has worked. I don't know what you mean by 'When the Horde is close to success, there seldom is any horde involved' because they are always involved.

I'm not saying they can't. Vast majority of cartoons for children run on the fact that the villains make a mistake, more often than not a face-palming one. But with Horde...it doesn't make sense they ever could've maintained their rule that long, especially since the heroic side seems to have more magic power one their side to beat Shadow Weaver even one-on-one.

I always looked at it like this: She-Ra comes along and gives the Rebels a boost. Not just a singular, 'most powerful woman in the universe' boost, but also the courage and inspiration to fight for what they believe in. In SOTS, the Rebellion was small, yet in Duel at Devlan, the following episode, a group of townspeople fight off the Horde after being inspired by She-Ra (and Krystala's bravery). For young children - the main audience for a show like this - the Horde represent bullies. They have power, but are cowards when confronted. There was a moral purpose behind the stories, so they always were going to be ridiculed. Using a cartoon to promote a toyline was still a relatively new and controversial measure, so the moral element was imperative (not just at the end, but in the stories too). As adults, we understand the sometimes silliness of the tiny band of Rebels fending off an intergalactic army (Bow's Magical Gift is a good example) but children's worlds are far smaller. The series spoke in their language, not ours.

[dura_grip]

She-ra is actually at least equal in physical strength to He-man in the Filmation cartoon. Anything he can do, she can do---maybe even with more ease. She's also got all those extra powers (eg. healing, telepathy). She has a better sword (because of the jewel), that can turn into a shield and rope. And she has better music and a more spectacular transformation sequence.

[Mer-Man's Minion]

I don't feel AT ALL that she-ra was written better than MOTU.

Wow. That's the first time I've ever heard that opinion expressed. I'm with the majority camp that that strongly feels that POP was much better-written than MOTU; it makes sense too, because by the time POP came along there was less trial & error, and more experience and know-how.

My biggest problem with She-Ra is how happy go lucky they are in the whispering woods. that's where it feels too frilly for me. Mind you I DO REALLY ENJOY this show! but when they are relaxing it feels so out of place. I know the whispering woods are safe and you need downtime, but they take their down time VERY seriously meaning it's so light and airy you wouldn't think there is a dictatorship to topple.

Considering all the rough stuff they have to go through, I think it makes sense that when they're home, they enjoy that peace time to the max and appreciate it for all it's worth.

I didn't feel as much is at stake on Etheria, yes Eternia is at peace, but it's tentative, if he-man gives up, if the good guys fail, the planet changes DRASTICALLY. but if she-ra and the rebels give up or fail, for most of Etheria it's business as usual.

Are we watching the same cartoons? lol I think there is a WORLD more at stake on Etheria than there could ever be on Eternia. On Eternia, you just have mean ol' Skeletor trying to concoct more individulized schemes ("Get this good guy", "Get into Castle Grayskull", etc.). But on Etheria, the entire planet is under the oppresion of The Evil Horde. Whole villages and cities are captured or enslaved or ruined. She-Ra IMO has SO much more to contend with, as do The Great Rebellion, which can't do everything on their own, but try the best they can.

[hadley]

This was a fun thread to read. I'm not a fan of She-Ra, and I loved to talk about that fact back in the old days. Now, for the most part the Hadley of 2001 was pretty much a butthead (hey, cut him some slack. He was a disgruntled 20something who couldn't get a job after college), but he did enjoy debating the relative merit of She-Ra with other fans at the time. I miss some of those old guys!

I'll always believe that if they didn't stop the MOTU cartoon in favor of starting POP, that MOTU would have lived longer. But I have no way of intelligently arguing that point nor any empirical evidence to state the case. Hell, I don't even know for a fact that they halted MOTU specifically to do POP. Nothing ever really seems to make this clear. They say POP spun off from MOTU, but nothing I've seen has explained why MOTU didn't continue along side its spinoff. I guess 6-year-old me is holding a grudge on the poor undeserving lady for taking my hero away.

(PS, my She-Ra MOTUC figure is standing proudly next to He-Man, as she did in my 200X display. I'm not a complete jerk hater. )

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This was a fun thread to read. I'm not a fan of She-Ra, and I loved to talk about that fact back in the old days. Now, for the most part the Hadley of 2001 was pretty much a butthead (hey, cut him some slack. He was a disgruntled 20something who couldn't get a job after college), but he did enjoy debating the relative merit of She-Ra with other fans at the time. I miss some of those old guys!

I'll always believe that if they didn't stop the MOTU cartoon in favor of starting POP, that MOTU would have lived longer. But I have no way of intelligently arguing that point nor any empirical evidence to state the case. Hell, I don't even know for a fact that they halted MOTU specifically to do POP. Nothing ever really seems to make this clear. They say POP spun off from MOTU, but nothing I've seen has explained why MOTU didn't continue along side its spinoff. I guess 6-year-old me is holding a grudge on the poor undeserving lady for taking my hero away.

(PS, my She-Ra MOTUC figure is standing proudly next to He-Man, as she did in my 200X display. I'm not a complete jerk hater. )