Is Classics becoming way too vintage and/or inconsistent?

[JOXE]

Design inconsistency in the line, specially noticeable in some of the latest reveals/releases, like: Buzz-Off, Clawful, and Leech. This mostly applies to the Face and Head sculpt, which seem to be the core of most controversies.

These 3 characters seem to be straight up, literal translations from the vintage toys (including even their goofiness and cartoony proportions), while previous Classics figures were more "balanced" while still being true to the look and feel of the vintage versions.

Don't get me wrong, i love vintage both the toy line and the timeless aesthetic of the original design. Many of us collect this line because of those designs. But you can convey that aesthetic WITHOUT repeating the goofiness and cartoon proportions of the vintage toys.

A few side by side examples, using ONLY vintage VS Classics.


TOO CARTOONY - Literal Vintage Translation






IMPROVED CLASSIC - Vintage Inspired






I know it's been confirmed that the 4H have creative control over the Classics line, however i do feel some strong inconsistencies: We got HUGE improvements like SKELETOR, Scareglow and Whiplash, who look both classic AND highly detailed evil looking. Same can be said about Battle Cat, huge improvement, very realistic yet 100% faithful to the vintage look and feel.

But then we get Buzz-Off and especially Clawful which could have used subtle improvements on the eyes and mouth area, much like WEBSTOR did.

Why is this happening?

[SCB]

It's case by case.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

Seems consistent to me...

[urbanmyth]

So your side-by-side shots really hurt your case. Both Buzz-Off and Clawful look sensibly updated from the vintage just like Skeletor and Tri-Klops. So the answer is no! (it's not like Skeletor got much of an update, he still has the 'bonnet' as people call it.)

[marndt8448]

Maybe the higher-ups who decreed that the 200x heads had to stop also decreed that the figures needed to look even more like the vintage toys than Tri-Klops & Skelly do...... except this time it wasn't made public.


Great comparison pics btw.

[Hordak]

I see it as pretty consistent as well. Looking at Clawful his body is way improved over the original. I think Whiplash was pretty much a vintage version but it was the extra head that makes him seem different when compared to someone like Buzz--Off. At this point in the line I expect vintage cardback design as the primary inspiration for these toys.

It's definitely case by case. King Hsss was a huge improvement (shoulder issue aside).

[Lookie]

The side-by-sides are supposed to demonstrate the level of copying from the vintage to the MOTUC. I can really see it in Buzz-Off and quite a bit in Clawful. Skeletor & Tri-Klops have more details that make the figures pop instead of being clones. I do think that the creativity (in regards to updates) has dropped off since about late last year. I really don't think Whiplash was a good upgrade, nor do I think Roboto, Buzz-Off, or Clawful really look updated.

If you want 1-to-1 figures of the vintage ones with updated articulation, you are probably happy; however, I was hoping for more in this line and I'm just not seeing it lately. I will remember this when SDCC rolls around and not take the plunge on another subscription as I can then skip the figures I don't like. I suggest this to all who are "stuck" buying some of these, IMO, weak figures.

[He-Man Pab]

So your side-by-side shots really hurt your case. Both Buzz-Off and Clawful look sensibly updated from the vintage just like Skeletor and Tri-Klops. So the answer is no! (it's not like Skeletor got much of an update, he still has the 'bonnet' as people call it.)

I agree.

Also I dont see nothing wrong with how they have been doing it actually

[MegaGearMax]

So your side-by-side shots really hurt your case. Both Buzz-Off and Clawful look sensibly updated from the vintage just like Skeletor and Tri-Klops. So the answer is no! (it's not like Skeletor got much of an update, he still has the 'bonnet' as people call it.)

I see what he's saying. Buzz-Off and Clawful (aside from the teeth) are practically the same heads as before, whereas Skeletor's skull face is way more realistic and Tri-Klops' visor is more teched-out.

I think it comes and goes. Bow's original head is totally different now and King Hssss' head has the reptile eyeballs and smirk changes to it as well.

[Flor2099]

So your side-by-side shots really hurt your case. Both Buzz-Off and Clawful look sensibly updated from the vintage just like Skeletor and Tri-Klops. So the answer is no! (it's not like Skeletor got much of an update, he still has the 'bonnet' as people call it.)

Wha! To me the side by side shots really call attention to just how different Tri-Klops' update is from Buzz-Off's!!

[urbanmyth]

I see what he's saying. Buzz-Off and Clawful (aside from the teeth) are practically the same heads as before, whereas Skeletor's skull face is way more realistic and Tri-Klops' visor is more teched-out.

I think it comes and goes. Bow's original head is totally different now and King Hssss' head has the reptile eyeballs and smirk changes to it as well.

Of course YOU do! You want Clawful and Buzz-Off to have 200x heads so obviously the heads look too vintage to you. . . and honestly, I'd prefer 200x or much more highly altered heads as well but that is not what this line is or has been doing.

Wha! To me the side by side shots really call attention to just how different Tri-Klops' update is from Buzz-Off's!!

I'll give you that one. But it's still not THAT different. These threads just come off as nitpicking the sculptor's designs and decisions.

[gbagok]

I can see more detail in the MOTUC heads for Clawful and Buzz Off. I think that Buzz Off just doesn't have as great a head in the first place, and Clawful's "eyebrows" are the big issue for him. What's affecting this also is we know there was a push back on too much 200X influence, so some choices made in adapting the designs for 200X were passed over for more literal interpretations (like the eyebrows on Clawful) in MOTUC. If that's too vintage is up to fans, but I would agree that the results are less impressive heads on Clawful and particularly on Buzz Off.

On the other hand, I hate Skeletor's head scarf hood in MOTUC. So in that way, this problem has been there from the beginning in my eyes.

I think it comes and goes. Bow's original head is totally different now and King Hssss' head has the reptile eyeballs and smirk changes to it as well.

Hiss had the smirk in the original toy too, but the detail is more pronounced in MOTUC.

[Alexx]

I see what you're saying, but it's a very small detail for me. I do see a bigger different between Skeletor's heads than between Clawful's heads, but on the other hand, I don't know what I would do to Clawful's head to change it. Skeletor's is just a bit more of a realistic skull; it makes sense. But...how would you make a more realistic...Clawful head? It is what it is. The only other thing to do would be to make a 200X head. I think they've done what is reasonable within the limits of the line (though I do still think the limits should be reevaluated.

[Rodster6]

Even though I think the figures are getting to be to close to their 80s versions, I think Skeletor and Triclops look about as close to their 80s toys as Clawful and Buzz-Off.
The main problem is the lack of 200x heads. Had Mossman only came with beastmans head I would of thought he looked rubbish but with the new head I really like him.
I like Buzz-Off and Robotos heads even though many think they are rubbish. However I don't like Clawful and Leechs and think they would look better with a more updated look.

The thing I loved the most about classics is the mix of all eras. Without the 200x heads it now does seem to 80s toy focused and I don't want to buy toys I already have just bigger. I want ultimate versions of these characters. To satisfy most people they really need to include the extra heads to cover more of the looks the characters have had over the years and more likely let people have the version they want. No one would care if they thought Clawful and Leechs 80s heads were silly looking if they had the choice to pop on the version they prefer. Scraping the extra heads was probably the worst idea of the line.

The line seems to be going more and more for nostalgia rather than its own style and is aiming more towards people who just want the 80s toys but bigger.

[Romer]

I want to think of classics of more than a direct update of the vintage line, I don't want it to be just "the old toy bigger and with articulation", it can, and it has done better.

[Tuukka]

No, but it's coming too expensive to collect all items!

[Eternian Poet]

The OPs observations are completely correct - Buzz & CF are almost straight copies from the vintage. But the 4H did special things for the likes of Tri-Klops & Mer-Man.

Quality is slipping - & I don't mean QC. I mean not getting extra heads, not seeing a new interpretation, & now we're getting ugly, pointless dials as a "homage".

[phantom1592]

One thing to point out... the early figures were not 'updated' as much as they were based off the cardback artwork. The same inspiration that 200x took much of their inspiration.

Merman for example, does not have a 200x head. it has a toy head, and a cardback head.


Eventually by buzz-off and Clawful stages, they stopped having cardback artwork, it was just photo's of the toy. so going 'classic' with Clawful... really only has ONE thing to base it off of...




That said, I LIKE Clawful's head. Buzz off is a bit goofy, but I never liked the 200x head either, so I'm not sure WHAT I would have preferred. I'll admit I had false hopes when I read the title of this thread. I was hoping it was a debate about stupid buttons and dials that don't work despite the 'mission statement'

They gave us goofy half-armor because we HAD to keep the ab crunch... then Roboto comes out with out the ab crunch....

We're told no action features because they don't want to break up the sculpt with buttons and levers... then we get nonfunctioning dials anyway....

there IS inconsistency going on... but just not with the faces/heads.

[urbanmyth]

I don't have any vintage figures anymore so I don't focuse on how the Classics figures compare down to the minute detail but it might be interesting if someone who does have then would make comparison pics similar to above (though with correct, matching angles unlike Clawful) for He-Man, Beast Man, Stratos, Faker, Zodac, Hordak, Scareglow, Webstor, Randor, Evil-Lyn, Orko, Grizzlor, Roboto, Man-E-Faces to see the trend.

[Berserker79]

I think I'm fine with 90% of the head sculpts, so it's okay...

[MegaGearMax]

Of course YOU do! You want Clawful and Buzz-Off to have 200x heads so obviously the heads look too vintage to you. and honestly, I'd prefer 200x or much more highly altered heads as well but that is not what this line is or has been doing.

You could still have the vintage heads and update them like the Skeletor and Tri-Klops examples where they aren't so much carbon copies, but still the vintage heads. That's probably what this thread is trying to make us notice.

I think the figures are getting more vintage because of the presumed 200X headed variants that Toyguru told us to campaign for. No reason to merge attributes like the older figures like Webstor did if there's another separate classicized 200X headed version coming eventually.

This all started happening around Whiplash, right? That's when they started axing 200X heads.

[warrenpeace2012]

I want to think of classics of more than a direct update of the vintage line, I don't want it to be just "the old toy bigger and with articulation", it can, and it has done better.

I agree 100% wit this. This is definatly a threat I can sink my teeth into. I believe it is inconsistent and too vintage. I'm not a fan of the vintage line but there are some figures that were updated that actually rocked my socks. All of the characters seem more realistic in the facial design (even the monsters) and they look serious. The vintage Skeletor and Triclops designs were horrible, and the 4H layed the smackdown with the updated designs. They look awesome and you can tell that there were necessary changes. Even He-man had a goofy head. Looked like he was constipated, but now look at the MOTUC version. Then we have Clawful, Buzz, Roboto and Leech.... cartoony, lame, goofy and exactly the same as their vintage counterparts with no changes at all. I dont know if the 4H are extremely busy or they just got lazy or what. Those 3 are lackluster IMO. Even Whiplash made me question which head to choose because they both looked fantastic.

[DO4M]

I'm seeing more attempts at Vintage Toy accuracy over making a cool "ultimate" version of the character while remaining inspired by the vintage line.

Buzz-Off and Clawful look like Decent attempts at recreating the toy head. (There are improvements on the body, but I'm ignoring those cause the focus is on the heads.)
On MOTUC Clawful the Teeth look very cartoony. Almost 80s TMNT Toy cartoony. Heck the Vintage fangs look more threatening than the MOTUC fangs. (Clawful's real improvements are from the neck down.
On MOTUC Buzz-Off: His head is slightly less bloated than Vintage BO.

On Trike and Skelly there have been some improvements on the head (either cardback inspired or more detail to improve upon their vintage designs by the Horsemen)

Skeletor has a better looking skull, his shading is less cartoony than the vintage Version.

Triklops has a better looking Visor, with more details and his headpiece looks more like a helmet than the weird Vintage Fez. Also don't forget the eyepieces behind MOTUC Triklops' visor. Extra cool details not on the original toy added by the 4hm.

[marndt8448]

....These threads just come off as nitpicking......

... if someone who does have then would make comparison pics similar to above (though with correct, matching angles unlike Clawful).....

Now that's nitpicking.
Those angles aren't that off.....


....please don't take that as bashing um, just trying to have some fun.

[warrenpeace2012]

(though with correct, matching angles unlike Clawful)

Doesn't matter if the angles or correct or not. Both heads are still hideous