Official Talkback Thread: The Dark Knight Rises

[SCB]

I think there's still a lot more we don't know, which is cool. Who is Selina/Catwoman and what is she? Thief? Vigilante that took over while Batman left?

[gbagok]

I'm surprised how much prominence JGL has in that new trailer actually. Good on him if he's becoming a selling point, but I'm baffled about his role since he seems to be acting like a young Jim Gordon. Maybe he's the new everyman on the street? I don't recognize the character, and the last prominent original character--Rachel--had a not so nice fate.

I agree there's a depressing feel to the trailer, but I felt that was there in the last trailer too with that haunting rendition of the Star Spangled Banner. I feel like all the characters are very mortal. Even Bruce looks ill. I hope this isn't a bloodbath of beloved characters.

Now that I can understand Bane, he sounds like a Darth Vader-ized Ian McKellen.

[ehenyo]

New trailer!!

[Flor2099]

New trailer still doesn't seem anything like Batman to me. These movies could have been about brand new characters and it wouldn't have made any difference.

[Shredder]

I wonderi f at the end of themovie, they will play the tim burton batman theme to show batman is truly batman and he's not in training anymore

[ehenyo]

New trailer still doesn't seem anything like Batman to me. These movies could have been about brand new characters and it wouldn't have made any difference.

I said the same thing about the Dark Knight, "It's like the movie 'Heat', except it just happens to have Batman in it!"

[MannyB175]

I am looking forward to seeing this movie. Is there any chance that DC would release a crossover movie just like Marvel's Avengers?

[Thatman]

I am looking forward to seeing this movie. Is there any chance that DC would release a crossover movie just like Marvel's Avengers?

DC fans would love it (I know I would.) But the problem is that DC's not been as successful as Marvel in getting their pantheon into successful film franchises. Green Lantern didn't do as well as they hoped, and I have no idea why DC can't get their act together and get Flash and Wonder Woman movies to the screen.

The other problem is Nolan's Batman isn't designed to work with other series. I don't know how Man of Steel will play out yet, but DC is years away from doing a combined-franchise film. That said, they could try going the other way and starting with the JLA (they almost did a few years back), but I don't think that would have the same impact as combining four franchises into one movie.

I have to hand it to Marvel on this - I'm a Batman/DC fan above all, but Marvel has played the whole film division very well.

All that said, I'm still really psyched for DKR - especially now that I can understand Bane!

[scott metzger]

For a life long DC fan, I'm in a sad state: I'm looking forward to Avengers more than DKR.

Begins was good, a little ponderous in over-explaining every aspect of everything, but a solid origin movie. But Dark Knight was a frenetic mish-mash which never quite figured out what it was trying to say. I remember mostly explosions rather than the character stuff that usually sticks with me. And I agree with what several have said, nothing felt like Batman; Nolan grounds the character far too much in reality and takes away a lot of his appeal in the process. And given that the main villain in DK, rather than being a scary psychopath, came off like the weird uncle you hope doesn't show up for Thanksgiving dinner, I really don't have a good feel for what Nolan will do with either Catwoman or Bane.

I don't know what it is with the live action Bat movies; none of them get all the elements right. Burton came the closest, in that he and Keaton got Batman down perfectly, but the villains were still too over the top. The Schumacher movies were altogether embarrassing. And Nolan tries too hard to make Batman too real, too grounded to be Batman. I have to echo another sentiment expressed here, that the animated movies like Phantasm and Sub-Zero were far superior to anything in live action, with deeper characterization and more coherent stories than we've seen in any of the mufti-million dollar blockbusters.

My bet is that all the hype about DKR topping Avengers or Hunger Games is unlikely to come true; it's not going to do near as well as DK, simply because it doesn't have Heath Ledger in his last role (and, sorry, almost every positive review I recall about DK talked about Ledger, not Nolan or anyone else who was part of the movie). The only good thing I can see is that this is the last of the Nolan Batmans, so hopefully the next round will re-boot everything and give us a better take on the character.

[Rhanen]

DC fans would love it (I know I would.) But the problem is that DC's not been as successful as Marvel in getting their pantheon into successful film franchises. Green Lantern didn't do as well as they hoped, and I have no idea why DC can't get their act together and get Flash and Wonder Woman movies to the screen.

The other problem is Nolan's Batman isn't designed to work with other series. I don't know how Man of Steel will play out yet, but DC is years away from doing a combined-franchise film. That said, they could try going the other way and starting with the JLA (they almost did a few years back), but I don't think that would have the same impact as combining four franchises into one movie.

I have to hand it to Marvel on this - I'm a Batman/DC fan above all, but Marvel has played the whole film division very well.

Newsarama post an article exposing that after the great result obtained by Avengers, a Justice League movie is viable. I do think the same IMHO. Although, As much as I like Bat-Nolanverse, JL movie should be something different. Probably The Man of Steel may pave the way for such movie, but I hardly doubt it.

I thought that GL movie would have been the one to do so, but story-wise was very simplistic and formulaic. Honestly, why did they make an intergalactic threat as Parallax like a smoke cloud that have been seen in Lost?
The new 52 DCnU has quite lost the identity on some characters, because they don't seem to understand them, so it seems even worse for a movie treatment if they hire an external writer to for the script and he only has the notion of superheroes from 60's Batman TV series (as Joel Schumacher).

I hope that in the next 5-10 years DC may be able re accommodate their minds to pull up their superheroes on the movie screens.

[Mr. Shokoti]

For a life long DC fan, I'm in a sad state: I'm looking forward to Avengers more than DKR.

Replace Avengers with Spider-Man & I'm right there with you.

Begins was good, a little ponderous in over-explaining every aspect of everything, but a solid origin movie. But Dark Knight was a frenetic mish-mash which never quite figured out what it was trying to say. I remember mostly explosions rather than the character stuff that usually sticks with me. And I agree with what several have said, nothing felt like Batman; Nolan grounds the character far too much in reality and takes away a lot of his appeal in the process. And given that the main villain in DK, rather than being a scary psychopath, came off like the weird uncle you hope doesn't show up for Thanksgiving dinner, I really don't have a good feel for what Nolan will do with either Catwoman or Bane.

I don't know what it is with the live action Bat movies; none of them get all the elements right. Burton came the closest, in that he and Keaton got Batman down perfectly, but the villains were still too over the top. The Schumacher movies were altogether embarrassing. And Nolan tries too hard to make Batman too real, too grounded to be Batman. I have to echo another sentiment expressed here, that the animated movies like Phantasm and Sub-Zero were far superior to anything in live action, with deeper characterization and more coherent stories than we've seen in any of the mufti-million dollar blockbusters.

My bet is that all the hype about DKR topping Avengers or Hunger Games is unlikely to come true; it's not going to do near as well as DK, simply because it doesn't have Heath Ledger in his last role (and, sorry, almost every positive review I recall about DK talked about Ledger, not Nolan or anyone else who was part of the movie). The only good thing I can see is that this is the last of the Nolan Batmans, so hopefully the next round will re-boot everything and give us a better take on the character.

I think I might have liked Batman Begins a little more than you did, but everything else feels like you were reading my mind.

I think Nolan has talent and I've liked a few of his movies, but I really don't feel the need to see any more from him until he shows some more range. I feel like everything he does is dark, depressing, & a tad pretentious with a James Horner score. I may not have loved Burton's 2 Batman movies, but I loved their look & Keaton is my favorite live action Batman(although I'll always have a soft spot for Adam West.).

The new 52 DCnU has quite lost the identity on some characters, because they don't seem to understand them, so it seems even worse for a movie treatment if they hire an external writer to for the script and he only has the notion of superheroes from 60's Batman TV series (as Joel Schumacher).

I hope that in the next 5-10 years DC may be able re accommodate their minds to pull up their superheroes on the movie screens.

I still haven't given up on DC Comics, but I tend to agree with you. DC was already getting much darker & more violent before the New 52 ever started(Identity Crisis or any fight involving Superboy Prime & Black Adam), but now they seem to have even lost the voices of their characters. DC used be the optimistic superhero universe where even heroes as dark as Batman acted like heroes, but lately a lot of their books feel like they are trying too hard to emulate JoeyQ's Marvel. IMO, the best thing featuring DC characters right now is the Young Justice cartoon.

[ehenyo]

Newsarama post an article exposing that after the great result obtained by Avengers, a Justice League movie is viable.

A few years ago, there was going to be a Justice League movie from George Miller. ONLY they would not have used the original actors: Bale, Routh, etc. http://www.superherohype.com/news/ar...league-project

[Vanquest]

Just watched the trailer in awe.

[gbagok]

The George Miller JLA movie sounded like it was really going to be something. I'm not sure I get how Armie Hammer was right for Batman, but George Miller deserved the benefit of the doubt. WB should be kicking itself for dumping that and then making Green Lantern with Campbell now that Avengers is cleaning house--especially since they're going to reboot Nolan's Batman and (according to him) Snyder's Superman if they make a JLA movie now anyway. I wonder if they regret not trying to work more with Joss Whedon when he was working on their Wonder Woman movie that still hasn't happened.

Anyway, I don't think TDKR is going to do badly or disappoint everyone. It's a different kind of movie from Avengers with an entirely different tone. I agree that's a good point that Ledger's Joker was a big ingredient of TDK's success, and that's partly because he added humor (even though it was sick) that I don't see Bane or Catwoman bringing. Why so serious indeed.

[Krueger]

The new trailer paints a very bleak picture. My friend is utterly convinced Batman will give his own life. I still don't think WB or Nolan would have the guts to do that (well, WB, at least). This trailer does kind of give you that impression, though. I suppose that’s what they want you to think.

[gbagok]

The new trailer paints a very bleak picture. My friend is utterly convinced Batman will give his own life. I still don't think WB or Nolan would have the guts to do that (well, WB, at least). This trailer does kind of give you that impression, though. I suppose that’s what they want you to think.

Not Bruce, but I have a feeling Alfred, Lucius, and Jim Gordon are all going to die in this thing. And if they don't, the JGL character will--he's on one of those bridges that we see blow up, isn't he? After a while you kind of go numb.

[Mr. Shokoti]

I wonder if they regret not trying to work more with Joss Whedon when he was working on their Wonder Woman movie that still hasn't happened.

Considering Whedon not only stated that he didn't have a great grasp on Wonder Woman or the DCU, but that Avengers seems to be popular more due to it having been built to over 5 movies(Whedon's Serenity or current Cabin In The Woods haven't broken any box office records), I don't think WB should lose any sleep. I feel that the Marvel movieverse is made by committee so much that nothing short of Uwe Boll could have delivered a failure.

[Rhanen]

The George Miller JLA movie sounded like it was really going to be something. I'm not sure I get how Armie Hammer was right for Batman, but George Miller deserved the benefit of the doubt.

I was aware that actually was going to be some sort of cgi action capture film, based in a mix of "JLA - New World Order" and "President Luthor" storylines. Having that in mind and considering part of the casting (DJ Cotrona as Superman & Adam Brody as Flash), IMHO, it would have turned out in an epic scale disaster from which DC/Warner would have not been able to recover.
DC animation is pulling out the best of each characters on TV & DVD's, how hard can it be to translate that into a well financed movie?

The new trailer paints a very bleak picture. My friend is utterly convinced Batman will give his own life. I still don't think WB or Nolan would have the guts to do that (well, WB, at least). This trailer does kind of give you that impression, though. I suppose that’s what they want you to think.

I actually think the same, it is most likely that he dies at the end; that should be the real twist of the whole trilogy. Acknowledging other Nolan movies, which all have a semi-open ending (Memento, The Prestige, Inception), how do you think TDKR shall end?

[Mr. Shokoti]

I can't see DC/WB letting Nolan kill off Batman in such a mainstream manner. Although I'm still surprised that they are advertising that this movie is the last chapter. To those who don't know any better, it sounds like Batman as a franchise is over after this movie.

[ehenyo]

I can't see DC/WB letting Nolan kill off Batman in such a mainstream manner. Although I'm still surprised that they are advertising that this movie is the last chapter. To those who don't know any better, it sounds like Batman as a franchise is over after this movie.

As many have said (and has been covered in multiple outlets), the Batman franchise will continue as a reboot. I believe Nolan and his wife Thomas will still continue to produce. So, it's entirely possible that Batman could bite the dust in this trilogy.

[gbagok]

As many have said (and has been covered in multiple outlets), the Batman franchise will continue as a reboot. I believe Nolan and his wife Thomas will still continue to produce. So, it's entirely possible that Batman could bite the dust in this trilogy.

That's very possible, but I still would think killing Batman off is a serious risk. Personally I just feel like the whole thing is a lame duck since they've said a reboot is coming regardless. Why care about anything if this is all just a big 3-movie experiment with no future? I get the pretentiousness of it, but these Batman movies will never be the Godfather to me, just as I'm never going to want an ongoing franchise set in the Godfather's universe either.

Considering Whedon not only stated that he didn't have a great grasp on Wonder Woman or the DCU, but that Avengers seems to be popular more due to it having been built to over 5 movies(Whedon's Serenity or current Cabin In The Woods haven't broken any box office records), I don't think WB should lose any sleep. I feel that the Marvel movieverse is made by committee so much that nothing short of Uwe Boll could have delivered a failure.

Wow, dude. That's harsh. Whedon's not a trained monkey driving a car on a track, he brought some talent to the Avengers that helped make it more than just a big typical super hero tent pole that it could have been even with the big cross overs. Yeah, I agree, there's a team working for Marvel (see, I would not use the word committee because it has obvious bad connotations that I don't think apply), who is matching the right talent to the right property. They are getting the right people to make their movies and collaborating with them to maintain their cross-picture continuity and vision. Which is why I think WB/DC should lose sleep honestly. Why don't they have their own group--we'll take a committee even, anything--that yields these results? Was Whedon right for Wonder Woman? I don't know, he might or might not have found his groove, Martin Campbell didn't with Green Lantern and he's not incompitent--but I can't believe Whedon was a worse fit than David E Kelley. I'd love it if WB could be in a place where they're putting out a movie that's been hyped for a string of five other successful movies. They should be looking long and hard at why they don't have it, and yeah I think hiring Joss Whedon and then not talking or trying to collaborate with him--which he also said happened--is part of their problem.

I was aware that actually was going to be some sort of cgi action capture film, based in a mix of "JLA - New World Order" and "President Luthor" storylines. Having that in mind and considering part of the casting (DJ Cotrona as Superman & Adam Brody as Flash), IMHO, it would have turned out in an epic scale disaster from which DC/Warner would have not been able to recover.
DC animation is pulling out the best of each characters on TV & DVD's, how hard can it be to translate that into a well financed movie?

The only cast member I had seen in anything was Brody in Mr. and Mrs. Smith, where he seemed like he'd have been a capable Wally West. And I'm not as afraid of or as against motion-capture as others are. George Miller is a good filmmaker, I think they could have made something worthy for them if they'd wanted to proceed--but I'd heard they didn't want to make a team up movie before making stand alone adventures. The first attempt, Green Lantern, was not their best effort though.

[Mr. Shokoti]

As many have said (and has been covered in multiple outlets), the Batman franchise will continue as a reboot. I believe Nolan and his wife Thomas will still continue to produce. So, it's entirely possible that Batman could bite the dust in this trilogy.

I realize this, but most people who will go to see this movie don't hang out on movie websites or even read comics.

Wow, dude. That's harsh. Whedon's not a trained monkey driving a car on a track, he brought some talent to the Avengers that helped make it more than just a big typical super hero tent pole that it could have been even with the big cross overs. Yeah, I agree, there's a team working for Marvel (see, I would not use the word committee because it has obvious bad connotations that I don't think apply), who is matching the right talent to the right property. They are getting the right people to make their movies. I think WB/DC should lose sleep honestly. Why don't they have their own group--we'll take a committee even, anything--that yields these results? Was Whedon right for Wonder Woman? I don't know, he might or might not have found his groove--but I can't believe he was a worse fit than David E Kelley. I'd love it if WB could be in a place where they're putting out a movie that's been hyped for a string of five other successful movies. They should be looking long and hard at why they don't have it, and yeah I think hiring Joss Whedon and then not talking or trying to collaborate with him--which he also said happened--is part of their problem.

My post was not an indictment of Whedon(I haven't seen Avengers but I liked Cabin & loved Serenity). It's just that your average moviegoer is going to see this movie due to its 4 year build-up & buzz without even knowing who directed it. I stand by my committee comment though based on things I've heard & read about Kevin Feige & Marvel Studios.

Part of me would like to see DC attempt to make a "movieverse" of their own, but much like Marvel movies & toons are using the Ultimate Universe & the post Avengers Disassembled comics as their inspiration(the fact that JoeyQ & Bendis are used as consultants still irks me), I'd be scared we'd get DC characters resembling their New 52 counterparts more than anything.

[gbagok]

I realize this, but most people who will go to see this movie don't hang out on movie websites or even read comics.



My post was not an indictment of Whedon(I haven't seen Avengers but I liked Cabin & loved Serenity). It's just that your average moviegoer is going to see this movie due to its 4 year build-up & buzz without even knowing who directed it. I stand by my committee comment though based on things I've heard & read about Kevin Feige & Marvel Studios.

Part of me would like to see DC attempt to make a "movieverse" of their own, but much like Marvel movies & toons are using the Ultimate Universe & the post Avengers Disassembled comics as their inspiration(the fact that JoeyQ & Bendis are used as consultants still irks me), I'd be scared we'd get DC characters resembling their New 52 counterparts more than anything.

My bad then, though I didn't mean that audiences would have seen his WW for him, but that he's proven he can make a movie that an audience likes--and I base that on my own liking it and the packed theater who saw it with me and long line to see the next available showing--all during a work day. I haven't heard as many bad things as you apparently about Marvel's team, but again the results have been good movies. Even if they now crash and burn, they still managed to create hype that paid off for this movie at least (and I'd say at least four the five to get here).

RE the new 52, I'd count that as more that's wrong with the DC part of WB/DC, but aren't they already using that for their movies with the Snyder Superman? I can only go by costumes as I haven't sat down and read any of the new DC titles.

[Krueger]

I think DC and WB would be foolish not to seriously re-think the way they’re going about things. Minus Batman, they’re clearly doing something wrong. And to be perfectly honest, I don’t see Man of Steel changing things. Granted, that is a bit harsh because it’s very early days, but I really do believe Superman Returns left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths, especially the general audience. Just being hypothetical, if Man of Steel does flop (Snyder hasn’t delivered a box-office hit since 300), what in all honesty will WB’s and DC’s next move be?

[Mr. Shokoti]

I haven't heard as many bad things as you apparently about Marvel's team, but again the results have been good movies. Even if they now crash and burn, they still managed to create hype that paid off for this movie at least (and I'd say at least four the five to get here).

The bad things I've heard have been mostly about Feige.

Even though I only like 2 of the 5 Marvel movieverse flicks, I do admit that what they have been able to create is pretty cool. The idea of getting a movie based on a superhero team seemed impossible to me as a kid. They were not only able to do that, but have 5 movies lead into it.

RE the new 52, I'd count that as more that's wrong with the DC part of WB/DC, but aren't they already using that for their movies with the Snyder Superman? I can only go by costumes as I haven't sat down and read any of the new DC titles.

I honestly haven't read much about the new Superman movie even though he's my favorite superhero(I'm just not a fan of Snyder and was hoping the Nolan brothers & Goyer would stop making superhero movies after this last Batman movie), but the costume definitely seems to share some with Jim Lee's "upgrade".