He-Ro vs King Grayskull

[Red Trinity]

I don't think there's any way that King Grayskull and He-Ro can possibly exist in the same canon, which for me, is ok. I gave up on trying to merge the canons in my head long ago. Even in the 80s, there were multiple canons for MOTU, and that was ok.

Everyone chose what they wanted it to be.

The reason I don't think that KG & H-R work together is within the Elders themselves. In MYP continuity, the Elders come into play after King Grayskull's death, and Castle Grayskull predates them.

However, in classic continuity, the Elders are the ones with the power, and the entire Hall of Wisdom is what becomes Castle Grayskull.

MYP had the Hall of Wisdom and Castle Grayskull as seperate entities.

You could somehow put King Grayskull in there somewhere after the original Hall of Wisdom becomes Castle Grayskull, but it seemed in the MYP cartoon that before King Grayskull, Castle Grayskull was just an empty castle with nothing magical about it.

It makes my brain twist in knots just trying to think about it. I'm much happier having them exist in an Elseworlds style. Two different genres.

[Baena]

I guess it would have to be through King Miro, since Randor and Keldor are sons of his, but they have different mother, so they are not sons of Veena and KG.

You're right... I didn't think of that.

Now is Miro KG and Veena's son? I doubt it... I think KG and Veena go back much further than that. Remember they were all but forgotten by most if not all Eternians by Adam's day.

I would put He-Ro before King Grayskull, dealing with towers and what not -- much like what Emiliano mentioned earlier. In fact, the whole King Grayskull having "power" issue could be dealt with nicely during a "death of He-Ro" type scene.

I've no problem with this.
It really would make a lot of sense really.

I'd prefer He-Man to be his own unique individual and not a copy of a previous ancestor. I don't feel I am who I am because of my fathers and mothers before me. Yes, they raised me, but I was quite concious of everything around me and hold my own values, ideals, and ethics.

He-Man is the 'iconic' character of Masters of the Universe. He is supposed to be the most powerful man in the universe. To find out that his power comes from some dude who just harnessed the power that was always just "within" him is just lame to me. There is so much more you can do when you have a fantasy/sci-fi series like Masters. AND when you already have a horde of pre-existing characters that could have been tapped in to, I don't really like the idea of creating new characters just to create them.

He-Man IS his own person just as you are you're own person, just as I am my own person.

He-Man IS the most powerful man in the universe... FOR HIS TIME... He aint gonna live forever, and he wasn't ALWAYS on Eternia before he was born. Who's to say there haven't been many men and women who held the title, "The Most Powerful".

And who's to say that if He-Man were pitted against his UberGreat Grandfather KG... That maybe He-Man would beat him... Don't always judge by size remember? (Not MotU related, but YODA...)

By me saying he looks or acts like he does due to his family heritage does NOT take away from his uniqueness in my mind.
He just happens to look, and sound, and have many of the same ideals as did King Grayskull. Oh and let's not forget, Adam calls upon his power, so there's an added connection.

Just like I might have as many similar traits with an ancient ancestor of mine, and as you would of yours.

Does that make me a clone of them? No... I am unique, as they are unique to themselves. But did they have influence on me today even when they have no idea of who I am? Genetically yes. Does that drive who I am today? Not as a whole but definitely in great part... You can't deny that. It's scientifically proven.
You didn't just appear on earth without any parents. Neither did He-Man appear out of no where.

You almost sound as if you DENY the very existence of your family, and the importance of how you were raised by them (if they raised you...) and how that has influence on who you are.
Be it they gave you good example, or bad, that is an influence on your character.

They had completely other ideas for Marlena, she isn't Adam's connection to KG.

Agreed.

[Hek-tor]

Let's add something to the debate
I always got the impression, that by the time He-Ro received his powers, Grasykull hadn't been built yet.
I'm sure it says somewhere that the three towers are older than Grayskull.
That would mean, that, somehow, it was He-Ro bulding the castle at some point...

From a previous post:

He-Ro and King Grayskull are two different characters and yet thye are not.
But Darth Latveris is totally right, I'm referring to their role.
My point is, that KG isn't something completely new by MYP.

The idea of a King of Grasykull existed since the beginning of MOTU.
We saw the King of Grayskull in the very first minicomics, remember the shadowed figure?
Then he became the spirit of Grayskull, the smoky ghost.
In the show, the spirit became the giant fucsia head, but it was still him.
Then He-Ro came in, and it was basically Mattel trying to figure out better the story about this misterious lord of Grayskull.
He-Ro secret identity name is Gray.

And there is one more evidence, something that make it so obvius.. but I don't know if we want to reveal that yet...myabe in a future update of the site.
Let me just say we get our hands on a very cool old document

Here's the link to the thread:
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=151779

Now I'm really confused.

[Baena]

And there is one more evidence, something that make it so obvius.. but I don't know if we want to reveal that yet...myabe in a future update of the site.
Let me just say we get our hands on a very cool old document

Cool old document?!

DO SHARE!!! PLEASE!!!

You've got my email....

[JVS3]

Even I don't know what Emiliano is talking about.
I think the stress has finally gotten to him.

[Emiliano]

Even I don't know what Emiliano is talking about.
I think the stress has finally gotten to him.

You should know!
Because you passed me that document!

[O'hartley]

Even I don't know what Emiliano is talking about.
I think the stress has finally gotten to him.

If he would have been to SD, then he might have catched some of the free hugs a couple of kind guys were giving on the street and I can tell that can take out the stress from your body and your mind too!

[2-bad]

I'd go with King Greyskull over He-ro any day. I still don't see how they can't be fitted in the same cannon.

Saying the King Greyskull was demeaning to He-man's character isn't fair. IMO I think it enhanced He-mans character greatly. He took on the whole Horde without letting any of his fellow warriors come to harm because he knew he wasn't going to survive. Now it He-man's responsibility to carry out KG's responsibilities. Having a similar look like He-man made him even more interesting since the MYP He-man had totally different features & built than Adam, unlike the classic counter part.

By this I don't mean to say I hate He-ro. He does seem like a good character, but we hardly knew what was his role. I consider him as part of 'The Ancients' & not 'The Elders'. I'm not sure but in one of the comics it was stated that the three towers were built by 'The Ancients'. The only thing about the PoG line that didn't appeal to me were the cyborg dinos. It didn't make any sense to me.

[krosfyah]

For the latter case, imagine him kicking the snot out of some villains and then rushing off in his boat. The first guys says, "man, i wonder who he is!" The second guy says, "he rows fast". This leads to a misunderstanding and his current name.

HAHAHAH even better!

[Darth Latveria]

Which thread was that in, as I've said the same on here.

It was pretty early in this thread. Anyways, here is what I came up with to put them both into the same continuity.

The power that they all wield would be sort of like this eternal "good" energy. It would be a sort of magic that kind of exists in the universe and is essentially the opposite of black magic.

HR would be the first person to learn how to truly use the magic. That is how he would get the strength. But he would be using the magic directly from the source, so he would also be able to do "magical" feats (like that elemental stuff referred to in the bio). I would however make it so that the power is too great for a man to truly control alone, so eventually it would drain HR and perhaps be the cause of his death *in a way similar to what was done in that movie, the Covenant*

Then I would have KG be born a few hundred years later. KG would be "chosen" by the force to create Castle Greyskull which would be used as a conduit for the force. So basically, instead of the force just being "accessible" as is, it would be funneled through Castle Grayskull into the "chosen one". Due to the potentially dangerous side effects of using the power's full potential, the power when channeled through Grayskull would only be used to augment the user's strength and wisdom, as opposed to the wider range of powers that were available to He-Ro.

So in the end, HM and KG would be more or less equal in power. HR would be more powerful than either of them, but the cost of that power would be it eventually killing him because the power is too great for him to contain in its raw form.

[DestrongerLupus]

Well anyone who knows anything about my little audio-drama knows, I like 'em both

I'd give He-Ro the edge though, he's definitely got a unique role in the mythos, whereas King Grayskull is kinda He-Man-light (Though I've tried to push him into some more interesting directions)

Anyway, just glad to see some love for Preternia generally

"By all the Powers of Grayskull!"
D/L

[Neutro]

All the ideas here on how to include both characters into the continuity sound good to me!

[DestrongerLupus]

All the ideas here on how to include both characters into the continuity sound good to me!

My storyline HINGES upon them co-exisiting

Eternia's got a VERY long history, you can intepret this as needing to spread the characters thin across the eras, or you can take it as liscence to put many significant characters into the same era.

I'm in the second camp

D/L

[Vahn]

Why only one or the other?

I don't think we should exclude either one, especially since both appeared in the modern continuity.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

If He-Ro and King Grayskull are in the same room for too long, the Universe will implode!

[gbagok]

Since I think there is no doubt that He-Ro and King Grayskull belong in the same cannon, I think a more interesting question is if there is room in a single MOTU cannon for both versions of He-Ro. Can there be an adopted son of He-Man (and biological son of She-Ra) who takes on the name of his ancestor and inherits He-Man's role as protector of Eternia? I tend to think that it would play a lot like the MYP series, with He-Ro taking on an enemy of his father the same way Adam did.

[Adam_Prince of Eternia]

I maintain that King Grayskull could work as something other than He-Man version 0. I like him in the sense that he could bring the barbarian He-Man origin into continuity with the Prince Adam/He-Man. But I think he very much needs to be distinguished from He-Man. Things like Battle Lion make that very hard, I admit. I think there just need to be more differences in their personalities and exploits.

I agree.

Mike Young Productions was more successful with the concept of Veena; her appearance is distinct from the Sorceress, but maintains many similar elements, and her characterization establishes nuances to the character of the Sorceress, e.g. the reach of the power of Veena is how far from Grayskull the Sorceress can travel in human form; the facial markings under the eyes of the Sorceress represent the tears of Veena, etc.

For the concept of King Grayskull to be tolerable, his appearance, especially in relationship to He-Man, needs to be redesigned. His appearance should be distinct from He-Man, but maintain enough similar elements to establish a relationship between the characters, and perhaps he should be smaller and appear more humble than He-Man.

[wolfsfang]

For the concept of King Grayskull to be tolerable, his appearance, especially in relationship to He-Man, needs to be redesigned. His appearance should be distinct from He-Man, but maintain enough similar elements to establish a relationship between the characters, and perhaps he should be smaller and appear more humble than He-Man.

But I thought that Adam became He-Man by channeling the soul / power of KG through his power sword, which then magically transformed him into a smaller copy of the king. Then there was the idea (not sure where I read it, probably on here) that the reason KG was twice He-Man's size was that HM only actually gets half the power, the other half going to She-Ra

[Adam_Prince of Eternia]

But I thought that Adam became He-Man by channeling the soul / power of KG through his power sword, which then magically transformed him into a smaller copy of the king. Then there was the idea (not sure where I read it, probably on here) that the reason KG was twice He-Man's size was that HM only actually gets half the power, the other half going to She-Ra

Speculation.

[wolfsfang]

Well perhaps the She-Ra bit is but in the MYP He-Man I thought it was pretty much established that KG is HM's power source.

[gbagok]

But I thought that Adam became He-Man by channeling the soul / power of KG through his power sword, which then magically transformed him into a smaller copy of the king. Then there was the idea (not sure where I read it, probably on here) that the reason KG was twice He-Man's size was that HM only actually gets half the power, the other half going to She-Ra

Er, I think it's a bit much to say He-Man is channeling KG's soul. I think that's where KG starts to swallow up He-Man's character too much actually. He-Man should not be seen as "a smaller version of King Grayskull," or as Adam possessed by KG's soul. To me that's the worst way to approach KG. The original Spirit of Grayskull concept, at least as I was understanding it, was definitely an entity apart from He-Man, like the Force was separate from Luke Skywalker. Similarly, I think KG should be separate from He-Man. I'm not very fond of Adam as the reincarnation of Grayskull idea either, but I'd prefer that.

The She-Ra stuff is definitely a fan idea, one that I'm not so wild about. I haven't heard anything concrete about the intended MYP origin for She-Ra's powers, but that one is problematic for me. It makes more sense to tie her powers to the Crystal Castle, something apart from Grayskull, hence the reason she'd be useful in a fight against Hordak. If both He-Man + She-Ra = King Grayskull (not very flattering to our heroes right there), and Hordak killed King Grayskull, then She-Ra doesn't tip the scale like she should. Plus, KG only had the one sword, which leaves all kinds of possibilities for where her sword came from and thus what supplies her power.

[sonofblaine]

My Vote for He-ro. I didn't care much for King Grayskull in the toons.

Then, DL gave us the Powers of Preternia radio Drama, and while I started getting more interested in KG thanks to that, I still don't like him that much. He's still a big, dumb barbarian. I call him King Numbskull. And he's written as a guy who wants to rule Eternia in peace... but under pretty questionable circumstances. VERY dictatorish, IMHO. Basically, "I want to create a new, Eternia of peace that I will rule... But your civilization is old and won't accept me? Well, I guess I'll just have to pillage, kill, and destroy you."

But in the next couple episodes of Powers of Preternia, I feel we'll finally see He-Ro meet up with Grayskull. So I'm looking forward to KG getting his furry butt handed to him a bit.

[SlyVenom]

I prefer the notion of the power of Grayskull coming from a combination of King Grayskull and the ancient elders. And that He-Ro (aka Gray) is the son of Grayskull and Veena.

I second this,
this would technically make He-Ro the first reciever of Grayskull's power.

[tylerm23]

Based on what we know of the stories so far, it's more likely that He-Ro is before KG, not vice versa. King Grayskull may be He-Man's strength, but where did the magic that let him transfer his powers to the elders come from???

[HeManOfGreyskull]

Why does He-Ro's source of power have to come from Castle/King Grayskull? Why can't he be a seperate force for good on Eternia, especially since we already have Hiss and Hordak and Skeletor running around for the bad guys, and Skeletor's powers are derieved from Hordak.....

Perhaps King Grayskull has the Power of the Good and He-Ro the Way of the Magic?